Electronic music has never been bigger. It’s a global phenomenon, a multi-billion dollar industry that has moved from warehouses to the world’s biggest stages. But as the scene has exploded, a deep and passionate debate has ignited within its online communities. On forums like Reddit, a clear fault line has appeared, dividing the massive, commercialized “spectacle” of modern festivals from the deeply felt desire for smaller, more “authentic” underground experiences.
The core of the conflict is a feeling that the original values of rave culture—participation, community, and immersion—are now being packaged and sold, and in the process, losing their meaning. What was once a culture you participated in has become a product you consume.
The Trouble with the Mega-Rave
For many long-time ravers, the hyper-commercialization of the scene feels corrosive. The core tenets of the culture seem to have been hollowed out. As one user on the r/aves subreddit put it, “PLUR is now about what you buy rather than how you act“. This captures a shift from an ethos based on shared behavior to one driven by consumerism.
This isn’t just a vague feeling; it’s backed by complaints about the reality of attending major festivals. Events like Hard Summer 2025 have been criticized for being dangerously overcrowded, having poor sound quality, and ending surprisingly early. These issues are seen as the direct result of a profit-first model that prioritizes ticket sales over the attendee experience, leading to events where people are “packed in like sardines”. 1
This overcrowding changes the entire vibe. The experience has morphed from a “dancefloor to a spectator event”. Instead of communal dancing and connecting with others, the focus shifts to watching massive LED screens and elaborate stage shows. For many, this feels like a betrayal of raving’s foundational principles. This commercial drive is also linked to the rise of a “touristy” crowd, who some feel are there “just to take photos in their rave fits” rather than for a genuine love of the music or culture.
The Search for the Underground
In response to this mainstream dilution, the “underground” has become an idealized antidote. Reddit users paint a clear picture of what they’re looking for: smaller, more intimate events that focus on local artists, with a dancefloor dedicated to dancing, not recording.
But finding these events isn’t as simple as buying a ticket. The consensus advice is that the path to the underground is through real-world social connection. Aspiring attendees are told to go to public events and actively “make friends there”. Building these relationships is the key to getting invited to the private parties and unadvertised gatherings that keep the spirit alive. This process acts as a kind of social filter, preserving the culture by ensuring its participants are genuinely invested.
The underground is also tied to specific genres seen as less commercial, like the “proper” techno discussed in the r/Techno community. It’s a conscious retreat from a mainstream where the DJ has been elevated to a “pedestal,” a stark contrast to the early days when the DJ was seen as just another part of the crowd’s collective energy. 2
PLUR is now about what you buy rather than how you act
The TikTok Effect
So, what’s driving this change? Users point to two main forces: capitalism and the massive influence of social media, especially TikTok. Major festivals are now marketed to a mass audience through viral trends and influencers. This attracts attendees who are participating in the “trend” of raving rather than engaging with the culture itself.
This influx of trend-followers is seen as directly responsible for watering down the scene’s core values. The ethos of PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect), once a cultural cornerstone, now feels less authentic to some. One user noted that it’s often “whipped out as a defense mechanism after someone is called out for something not cool,” rather than being a genuinely practiced principle. 3
This cultural shift is even reflected in fashion. One female raver said a turning point for her was when “girls started dressing sexy.” She explained that raves had been a refuge where she could “go and dance and be free without being hit on,” a space where androgynous fashion was common and she didn’t feel sexualized. The shift to more revealing attire signaled a fundamental change in the environment, prompting her to retreat to the underground where the old ethos was better preserved. 4
Ultimately, this great divide highlights a culture grappling with its own success. The battle between spectacle and soul is a fight for the heart of what it means to be a raver in 2025, and it’s a conversation that shows no signs of fading away.
- https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/1mhupr7/hard_summer_2025thoughts/ ↩︎
- https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/1b0dah5/are_there_any_other_subs_for_more_underground/ ↩︎
- https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/1izer94/rave_scene_changing/ ↩︎
- https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/1i0f21v/rant_its_not_the_rave_scene_thats_changing_its_you/ ↩︎
* generate randomized username
- COMMENT_FIRST
- #1 Lord_Nikon [12]
- #2 Void_Reaper [10]
- #3 Cereal_Killer [10]
- #4 Dark_Pulse [9]
- #5 Void_Strike [8]
- #6 Phantom_Phreak [7]
- #7 Data_Drifter [7]
- #8 Zero_Cool [7]
